Amid Brutal Civil War, Sudan’s VP Defends Refusal To Participate in U.S.-Led Peace Talks

Sudan has been caught in a bloody war between the country’s army and a militia for 16 months with tens of millions of civilians caught in between. This week, the United States attempted peace talks in Geneva, but the Sudanese Armed Forces refused to attend. With the support of the Pulitzer Center, special correspondent Leila Molana-Allen discussed the war with Sudanese Vice President Malik Agar.

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Read the Full Transcript

Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for accuracy. They may contain errors.

Amna Nawaz:

Sudan has been caught in a bloody war between the country's army and a militia, the Rapid Support Forces, for 16 months, with tens of millions of Sudanese civilians caught in between.

This week, the United States mediated peace talks in Geneva. The RSF militia sent a delegation, but at the last minute appeared to not officially participate in the talks. The Sudanese Armed Forces refused to attend altogether.

In the first of her reports from a rare trip inside the country with the support of the Pulitzer Center, special correspondent Leila Molana-Allen sat down with Sudan's vice president in Port Sudan on the Red Sea.

Leila Molana-Allen:

Five years ago, elated Sudanese, young and old, danced in the streets after countrywide protests brought down Sudan's 30-year dictator and indicted war criminal Omar al-Bashir. Democracy had arrived. But just two years later, the Sudanese army and a rehabilitated militia, the Rapid Support Forces, united under Army Chief Abdel Fattah al-Burhan took power in what Sudanese civil society calls a coup against the people.

Malik Agar is Sudan's vice president and deputy head of the military junta that's ruled the country since 2021. A former insurgent leader, he's been a leading political and military figure for decades. Before the explosion of the conflict last April, RSF Leader General Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo, widely known as Hemedti, was vice president. Agar succeeded him after the RSF broke away from Sudan's army and began to fight against it.

The war erupted seemingly without warning, taking most Sudanese by surprise in its speed and ferocity. The "News Hour" sat down with Vice President Agar to discuss the latest on the fighting and the prospects for peace.

Malik Agar, Sudanese Vice President:

The attacking force was a collateral force, very huge. And they put the Sudan government army into a position of defense. And after one year, the Sudanese army managed to change the mood of the war, and now the Sudanese army is on offense.

So to fight them, to follow them from area to area is rather difficult for a conventional army. This is why it's taking long.

Leila Molana-Allen:

Agar has been an outspoken critic of international attempts to mediate the conflict and encourage negotiations with the RSF, saying the only solution is the complete military destruction of the militia.

Malik Agar:

Any leader in Sudan who can go into negotiations with the RSF is committing a political suicide. RSF is an instrument, is a tool for the UAE and others. Hemedti has no control of the forces here.

How do you kill people? How do you rape girls and women and everybody and destroy the infrastructure and you want to rule? Then you have no control of these forces.

Leila Molana-Allen:

Multiple foreign governments, including the United Arab Emirates, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Iran, have taken an interest in the conflict, resulting in a steady flow of foreign weapons and mercenaries on both sides.

In June, Agar traveled to Russia to meet with President Vladimir Putin. We asked what he hoped to achieve.

Malik Agar:

Because I'm fighting a war, and when I'm fighting a war, I don't need pens. I need weapons. And who manufactures weapons? And if I have the ability of getting those weapons, if I have the means of getting in this war, I will get it.

Leila Molana-Allen:

Attention to the conflict has been muted in the West, but news that Sudan's government had repaired diplomatic relations with Iran and signed a new weapons deal this spring raised alarm.

Agar says if the United States is worried about where they get their weapons, it should sell to Sudan itself.

Malik Agar:

We are not saying here, I'm not confessing here we are buying weapons from Iran, but we are ready to buy weapons from any country.

Leila Molana-Allen:

Human rights groups have documented evidence of weapons being supplied to the RSF by the UAE, Russia and Turkey, among others, smuggled into RSF territory via neighboring Chad. The United States is a leading arms seller to the UAE.

What impact are those foreign weapons having on your ability to fight this war?

Malik Agar:

Definitely, they have an effect, a great effect, because these are new weapons. They are not used. Sudanese army, they never had such weapons. These militia are being supported by the UAE — I mean, let me put it bluntly, by the UAE and others.

But the UAE has a lot of economical interests in Sudan. One of them — number one of them is gold mining in Sudan. They wanted some sort of agricultural lands in Sudan. They had also an interest of having an area on the Red Sea for their own interests.

So, we believe there is other interest from other countries also. So it is a complex situation.

Leila Molana-Allen:

What do you want the United States to do in terms of taking responsibility for the use of those U.S.-manufactured weapons being used to slaughter innocent civilians here in Sudan?

Malik Agar:

One thing that the U.S. government can do is, one, to stop supplying the UAE. They know, the Americans, they know that weapons are being used in Sudan. There is no doubt about that, because the evidence (is) there.

So then, for them also, they have to decide what to do. Do they want a war in Sudan to continue or do they want — as they talk about democracy and human rights — do they want to preserve the human rights of the Sudanese? And you cannot bring democracy in the middle of the guns.

And you cannot bring democracy when you are using militias.

Leila Molana-Allen:

So you believe that these efforts on behalf of the United States to try and become involved in peace talks for Sudan are simply political posturing ahead of the election?

Malik Agar:

Yes, yes, yes, definitely yes. They are just political alibis, and they are not serious about it. When these elections are over, they will change their mind.

Leila Molana-Allen:

The U.S. is mediating talks this week in Geneva aimed at improving the humanitarian situation. But both of the chief parties to the conflict are absent. Leaders say they have little faith in the process.

What is it that makes you feel that this U.S. administration isn't a serious partner for peace in Sudan?

Malik Agar:

Their behavior tells me that. The U.S., the U.S. administration, they have never came here. We have an envoy who has never put a leg in Sudan. And he is a special envoy for Sudan. And he is just talking with others. They're from Egypt, and Uganda, Kenya and all these things.

And you just bypass Sudan in the middle here.

Leila Molana-Allen:

U.S. engagement has been patchy. Special envoy to Sudan Tom Perriello has never visited the country in his role. A planned visit alongside USAID Director Samantha Power was aborted after the U.S. team refused to travel any further inside Sudan than the airport, citing security concerns.

What does that say to you about their seriousness of being involved in peace talks with Sudan?

Malik Agar:

If you are serious to solve a problem somewhere, why you don't come and meet the president in this country? Why you don't meet us in our country? But this is not happening.

Leila Molana-Allen:

Meanwhile, civil political leaders say they have been cut out of the peace talks and plans for Sudan's future.

Is it the intention of the Sudanese Armed Forces to immediately give back power to a democratically elected leader when the war is over?

Malik Agar:

Yes, they are ready to take the country to elections and hand over power.

Leila Molana-Allen:

And that is what will happen?

Malik Agar:

That is what's supposed to happen. You win the war first and then you go for establishment of democracy.

Leila Molana-Allen:

For now, as the war rages on, democracy has been put on the back burner.

For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Leila Molana-Allen in Port Sudan.